Peter Gets A Lesson
His Pinay honey teaches him that appearances can be deceiving.
Note: This is going to be a very long article of 21-pages. There is correspondence between ‘Peter’ and I, about his involvement with a Filipina in Mindanao. Towards the end you’ll find an investigative report from a firm in Cebu.
For regular readers: Below this article you will find two more new articles written in October, plus more photos. Rik
“Peter” is a fictitious name. He has requested anonymity.
Peter is a middle-aged fellow from a north-eastern state. He’s never been married. He plans to retire and move soon to the Philippines. Peter has decided he’s now ready to be married. His plans are to live permanently in the RP, take a Filipina as his wife, and perhaps even have children.
Peter first contacted me by leaving a message in a comment area of ETP. He was seeking help in learning if the Filipina with whom he was having an Internet love affair was all she said she was.
All of Peter’s later email’s came to me via my private email. The readers therefore had no knowledge of the ongoing story taking place.
I do attempt to help people at a more private and personal level when it fits their nature, and if it is not necessarily relevant to the main purpose of ETP. It’s one of the reasons I sometimes ‘disappear’ from my website. I become so involved with writing in the background with private correspondence that ETP suffers. I can only sit at this computer so much before the pain in my bad back becomes too acute.
Now that the story has played out, and with Peter’s permission, I’m going to share Peter’s story and how he discovered that all is not what it seems between foreign men and many of the Filipina's they meet on the Internet.
It’s an important lesson for all those who contemplate moving to the RP and who begin their journey by starting a long-distance Internet affair with a Filipina.
Below are excerpts from Peter’s emails and portions of my replies. Be warned that some of Peter’s messages can be hard to understand, as occasionally he drinks J W Black while he writes. Although I will edit (correct punctuation, etc.) some of his correspondence for necessary clarity, I have neither the patience nor the desire to spend much time rewriting everything.
Some of the excerpts are unnecessary to the story, but are simply shameless promotions – and for vanity - to the ETP site.
Rik
Peter: Thanks Rik for your quick response. I have greatly enjoyed both your pictures, your explanations of the culture, and your invaluable advice on the Philippine woman. Everything you have stated in your blog seems very rational and well thought out. I look forward to reading your blog and check daily for any new blogs.
My gameplan, subject to change, is to live in the Philippines and commute back to the States once or twice a year. The electronic age is becoming so global that where you live is not very important.
I have never been married. Your description of the American woman seems right on the mark.
I have been on the internet dating sight, Filipina-Heart, and have received at least a thousand responses in just a couple of months.
My intercourse with you was to primarily have the groundwork in place. I may be very close to corresponding for the PI and then again I may not. I will thanks to you, be checking the background of any prospects that make the finals.
… I like your input because you are there and you have Celine as a possible advisor.
… the information download that you have provided is priceless. I am an intense researcher and have done a boat load of work on the Philippines. That is how I ran into your website.
… Your website easily boosted reliable information by at least 50% and I experience everything you say to be true. There is no way that I would have known the best technique and the only technique if not for your blog. It was through your blog and other research found at the end that changed my final destination in life from the Caribbean to the Philippines. Thank you.
… decided to join the website Filipina-Heart in July. And of course you get immediately bombarded with ladies. Now I know from other research all about a lot of scams, including the one you detailed in your blog. While it is not foolproof the best answer is the web cam. I selected Filipina-Heart because it received the most hits. If you don't have a good hit meter try www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic, they also give reviews of various websites.
- I decided to join the website in July. And of course you get immediately bombarded with ladies. Now I know from other research all about a lot of scams, including the one you detailed in your blog. While it is not foolproof the best answer is the web cam. I selected filipina heart because it received the most hits. If you don't have a good hit meter try www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic, they also give reviews of various websites but I take thoughs with a grain of salt.
Now using submissivewives.com without joining, I broke down a profile of their women and I set myself up a score card. I also looked for women that sat up straight or stood at attention I like that body language. Now I wanted a submissive wife, not just for sexual purposes, just in general… I have never been married.
… My strategy in life has been to make money first, women second.
… I no doubt have been charmed beyond anything I thought was possible, although I have not yet lost my sanity,(again thanks to you), by a certain 20 yr old. She is from the Provinces above the dangerous area of Davao. About a 4 hour drive. She was not the only contestant as I told you. She is a virgin. I have actually never had a virgin because I never wanted that lack of experience and all that goes with it. Now I am not giving her to you Rik , but I would have felt better if she had a little tiny bit of experience. The virgin thing makes breaking up significantly more difficult and perhaps more dangerous(family).
Of course they are poor. She is non materialistic in her profile. That along with her posture and education caught my attention along with my scorecard. The non materialisticness is taken with a grain of salt. However, she has never asked for money. About a month ago, however, I felt a money request coming, (She had something important to tell me that she needed my advice) and I shut her down before I heard the request. Broke off communications completely. Again thanks to you. I decided after a week that that was an unfair way to end this relationship. I told her my aunt a filapino, said she was a bad woman and that she had someone in mind for me. I most certainly had her attention. I have been in the drivers seat ever since.
She works in an internet cafe. 7 days a week, 13 and a half hours a day. She makes 160 pesos a day. She gets free room and board. She has to pay to use the internet. (I can't believe this). She is the cashier. I know from other reading that they obviously are trusted.
Rik: It is... smart of you to take the advice - arguably the best advice I can offer - to have your Honey Ko investigated. And I sincerely hope that's all you need to find that your sweetie is honest and trustworthy. However, even though you may get a good report, I still caution you to take things slowly. If you plan to take your Honey Ko back to the States, then you should also plan to marry her there, as well. As you should know from reading ETP, there is no divorce in the RP. I am currently into my fourth year of trying to get an annulment from my wife (not Celine), and I don't see myself getting any closer to my goal. Although my attorney rested the case last October and I was told by the judge I would get a decision within 60-days... I'm still waiting, and I could be waiting for many more years.
It's far better to marry in the U.S. where a divorce is quick and easy, and which is recognized by the Philippine government. If you're planning to move here to retire or work; even if your PI gives you a 'pass', you should live with your Filipina for years - at least three - before you make it legal. If you marry in the RP - getting married in the church will make an annulment even more difficult. Marrying at 'City Hall' makes things at least somewhat easier.
When you contact a PI, it would help the investigator to know in what Barangay she lives in. A Barangay is like a neighborhood or county, but in an official sense. Mail reaches me because the mail delivery guy, who shows-up occasionally (there's no daily mail delivery, and it can take a week or more for the mail to travel the 2-kilometers from the P.O office to here) on a small motorbike knew to come to the right Barangay, then to the village, then he asked around to learn which house I live in, Then he remembered me on later deliveries.
So you need to get your Filipina's best address to provide to the P.I., in case you're just writing her through the Internet.
… Now, here's my next best advice: protect yourself - protect yourself - protect yourself!
Peter: She lives about an hour from her parents… They all know about me... She send part of her earnings back to the family. (We spend so much time online, it can't be much). When I sent her my picture at her request along with a square of my blanket I enclosed $50.00US. I have read somewhere, where the postal people have x-ray vision, but as the package was going to her cafe and said pictures on it, it made it. I thought it a reasonable gamble. It took 14 days. I just felt guilty that she was spending so much money on me. We have communicated via email, chat and web cam. The cafe cam was recently stolen. (Problem) She said she put the money in the bank…
…I got mad at her a second time the day I corresponded with you. Again, I want to thank you for your rapid reply. I was mad that day because we had a phone date at midnight PI time. They had a festival in town and she wanted to go to a sing and dance event at the gym with her girlfriends. The operator said "your call is either unattended or out of the listening area. I was not crazy about either of those prospects, but she did set up the date that day. She does not own a cell phone and has to borrow one. She never did answer her phone.
The next day, I received your email before I received any of hers. I had sent her an email prior, prior to sending you one, with the operator quote. I told her, I think I am your boyfriend. Mid-afternoon she sent me two emails and explained that tere had been a bad storm that took down the satellite. I told her that I had set up a chat date with my aunt's friend, which I had, and had made connections with several (only you) Americans living in the PI. I also quoted one paragraph from you letter ananymouly: David, "Now, here's my next best advice, protect yourself - protect yourself - protect yourself!".
… Second JW… When I sent her the $50.00US, I told her that it is probably too late(I had to make sure she got it, I couldn't tell her that it was coming), however I would prefer she didn't tell anyone about it. i told her that I gave it to her precisely because she never asked for it. That I never give money to people that asked for it because, you don't get it back and they often spend it on booze or drugs. I don't mind helping people, and I don't. I know there are a lot of poor people and I am sorry, but I only give money when I want to and never when anyone asks for it. (Thanks Rik) She said she understood.
… I have been clocking her period, I think I have it. This is indespensible information that very few guys know about. If you know where you are in the period other than the obvious, a lot of things make sense.
… She said she wanted to bring a girlfriend with her and that she would stay at her aunts in Cebu. She wanted to stay by my side day and night. She said that she had never been to Cebu was scaried to fly and scared to take a ship. Her safety was a major concern, it made sense what she told me, the other girl had been to Cebu. I said I would pay for both's expense when I meet them if they had receipts. I said the internet and or phone was not foolproof. She agreed and was very happy.
… She asked me if I wanted to sleep with her. I told her that that decision would be made at the appropriate time and not over the phone/internet.
… I found out (accidently), that she was a virgin when we were in a chat and I asked her if she was a good hostess. She immediately went offf about that fact that she is not that type of woman. She is a woman no one can touch. This chat was a couple of days ago.
Rik: If you decide to, and then marry your Filipina, it's far, far easier (less time consuming by as much as 18 months) and much cheaper to get your 13(A) Permanent Resident Visa (for married persons) by first telephoning the Philippine Consulate in San Francisco or New York City, having the proper paper work mailed to you, filling it out and getting the required documents. Once you have the documents filled out and mail them back to the Embassy, they will request that you go there to see a consul official. They will have you go a second time to pick-up your papers. The two trips I made to S.F. was spaced over only 5-days - because I went on a Thursday then had to return on the following Tuesday. The processing took three days only. I was charged about $57 for everything.
I've talked to Americans who started the 13(A) process here and it took up to 18-months and cost $700 or more, mainly because in the RP you will need an attorney to do the work for you.
If you do contact the S.F. RP consulate, be prepared to have to call numerous times as they are inept and will shuttle you from office (phone) to office and you will be hung-up on and disconnected. Have patience and keep at it. Try to be as clear as you can about what you want to accomplish. The best thing is to tell them repeatedly that you need to talk to a consulate official about getting a 13(A) Permanent Resident Visa, and that you need the documents to apply for it. Doing that myself required telephoning the Consulate between 12 and 20 times over a four day period before I got through to someone who could or would help me. But then, I didn't know what I was doing, and had no one to advise me.
If you want to go very slow and be very careful about who you're marrying, you might want to just live here with your Honey Ko, sans marriage, using a 59-day visa. You can renew it for a small fee at the local immigration office. There's foreigner's who've claimed to have lived here for as much as 15-years on a 59-day (renewable) visa. When you're absolutely certain you can trust her, and want to marry your Filipina, go ahead and do it. You might consider, I repeat, flying her to the States just long enough to get married, and then return.
She will need a passport, of course, and an American tourist visa which will require her (you) to put up a P450K refundable bond before she can get the visa: that's about $8000.
About terrorism in the Philippines. Yeah, it's here, but mostly in the Manila area and in Mindanao. I wouldn't live in Mindanao for anything, nor will I visit there; it's too dangerous. There's some danger to living in Pampanga (Angeles City, Clark air-force base area some 60 miles north of Manila) because of the large number of foreigners. Angeles City has the highest number of retired Americans at over 3000 people, so I'm told. That's where all the bars and wild goin's-on's are located. If you like to drink (I do not) and like cheap sex by volume (quantity of females; bar-girl prostitutes), or being continuously chatted-up by retired military types, that place may be a good place for you to live. However, there's Rebels (as they're called here) in the area who on occasion kidnap foreigners for ransom.
Terrorism has a decidedly financial motivation in the RP.
In Mindanao, there's more kidnappings for money. But there’s also plenty of political terror. Many more people die in that area, as there's a penchant for public bombings.
Palawan is peaceful and quiet in contrast to the rest of the RP islands.
Palawan is separated from the rest of the RP by the Sulu Sea. Although there are some Rebels here, in the far north and south; they are generally content to kill policemen and military people. Puerto Princesa City (PPC) is free of rebels, and in the four years I've been here I've never had to worry or feel afraid. It's a good place to live. Manila or Cebu can be reached by a 55-minute plane trip. There's great resorts and some of the best dive spots on earth. Palawan is known as the "last frontier." There's still mountain tribes living in the old ways of a thousand years ago in the south.
It's growing (PPC) and will become like everywhere else before too many more years, but I would rate Palawan as the best spot in the RP. However, if you need your city fix and you can't live in small towns, you need to stay somewhere in Luzon - the island where Manila is located – or in the Cebu area. Be warned that Manila is a horrid, filthy and dangerous city, where the pollution will coat your skin with an oily mess within minutes of stepping outside.
When you fly into Manila, I would suggest that you stay at the Swagman Hotel in Ermita (a section of Manila). It's cheap compared to the big hotels and is only one block away from the US Embassy. There's good low cost food to be had at the Park Embassy Hotel dining room, which is directly across the street from the US Embassy, and around the corner from Swagman's.
Don't wear jewelry or carry a cell-phone openly in public. Keep your wallet, passport, money, etc. secreted. Try not to dress like a typical tourist or in fancy clothes. It's best to travel with a cloth belly pouch (which has an elastic strap) under your shirt. You can buy one in most travel shops or online for about $10.00. Buy a good and comfortable inflatable neck pillow for the plane trip. You'll thank me for that advice every time you fly for 11-15 hours.
Before you leave the States buy one spray bottle of OFF mosquito repellent to bring with you. When in Manila go to one of the Mall's like Robinson's Mall, which is also close to Swagman's Hotel, and into a department store (Robinson's) and buy one or two more. You can also get OFF at the drug stores. The RP is full of mosquitoes, including Manila which even has dengue fever.
You might be interested in going to this website to look at the Filipina's and read profiles: This is the home page: http://www.submissives.net/
It may help give you insight into the difference between the women of the East and West.
I can't say enough times that you - or any Western man - should just come here and taste of the exotic fruits (so to speak) and enjoy yourself for awhile. Get to know the ways of the people and the ladies. We Westerner's often feel the need to have something 'waiting' for us in advance before we come here. I plead guilty of doing that, myself. But I've long since learned that you don't need to. Very quickly after setting up house here the jungle drums will start beating, and before you know what's happened you'll have mother's bringing their daughters, aunties bringing nieces, sisters bringing sisters, men bringing groups of women to your door to offer them to you.
You won't be lonely for more than a few days or weeks - if that long. But know that if you let a girl through your door on some sort of permanent basis, it can be very hard to get them out again when you discover they lie, deceive or steal from you.
You need to tell the girl, the parents and everyone else your rules beforehand: "Lie, cheat, steal , deceive and I'll throw you out. Period!" If you are extremely clear in your rules, you'll get little or no argument from relatives when you do toss the girl out for breaking rules.
SET YOUR RULES - MAKE SURE THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU TELL THEM - KEEP REPEATING YOUR RULES - DON'T BEND YOUR RULES, AND ALWAYS KEEP YOUR PROMISES.
That means you should be careful what you promise.
Some parents will try to sell you their daughters for the price of a multi-cab or tricycle so they can start a business. They may just want money. Some parents will offer to sell you their 13, 14-year-old girls. If you take one of the young ones, you can and may be black-mailed to keep from being turned in to the police. But, if you take good care of the parents - build them a bamboo hooch, give them some money now and again, pay some of their doctor bills, and so forth, they'll protect you. But it’s against the law to take a girl under the age of eighteen. So you take an underage girl at the risk of finding yourself in a Philippine prison. Believe me, you don't want that.
It's quite common for girls as young as eleven to marry. However, they mostly marry Filipino men. Girls are bought and sold. There's a large segment of Muslim's in the Philippines. Buying and selling brides - as well as multiple wives - is way people can see that their daughters find husbands who can afford to give them a good life, and the parents can benefit financially along the way. I personally don't see anything wrong with it. I think one needs to live here for a while to recognize he necessity, the logic and the benefits of that sort of marriage. Prior to 200-years ago, virtually every marriage marriage in the world was arranged for financial and personal benefit. Can we say that the 'contemporary' style of marriage for love is better while 52% or more of all marriages end in divorce?
Anyway, it's a weird world here, and nothing... nothing like the USA.
It may be a good idea to have some honey's to meet when you get here but, unless you're in a big hurry to marry, take your time and don't talk too seriously with the Filipina's - and don't stick to only one. Tell them up-front that you are 'looking' for the right girl and that means you have to 'look' at more than one. Think of dating as interviews for a job. and don't hire the first applicant that comes through your door. They'll **** you anyway.
When you get information of a girl's address let me know and I'll have Celine send text messages to get you a PI in the Mindanao area.
… I suffered when I first came here and had to learn through the trip, stumble and fall method. I just hate seeing others go through that when I can help them without a lot of effort.
… I hope all of your dreams come true for you once you're living in the land of endless summers.
Peter: …The only evidence (refresh you virgin thought) she has presented or I quiz up was that she broke up with her boyfriend about six months ago as he married another. I beat he was from the fh website I originally thought he was a Filapino. I probably will cross-exam her on this.
One of the problems with virgins is that they never forget their first one. I also think about the family and religion problem. She said she would die when I died and was crying that my man is the key part of the menstual cycle. That and other evidence. However, I told her foolishly that was and email her after the phone conversation about the foolishness of her comment, but it is a concern. Rik these women are loyal, she doesn't even know me.
… She loves the way I respect her (I know what you are thinking), I am not profane at all and I am very respectful at least initially of everyone. She said other men turned profane after a while and that she is not that type of girl. The profane part is most likely true. I have seen to much evidence to discount that.
I told her from the beginning that I am a man that believes in a back up plean always. I would have a #2 ready if this didn't pan out. However, I told her the truth and that I haven't decided on a number 2 yet, but that I am still looking. She understands. The only thing she acts concerned about is my aunts friend (fictious). She also did not like the fact that my aunt said she was a bad woman.
Sidebar: I did not know that a hostess was essentially a bar girl, hadn't ran across that.
… How do I keep her from being materialistic. I like when she says your the boss, I was trained to be firm and fair. This materialistic question bothers me. She has seen that I own three TV and countless other electronic gadgets on web cam. She claims and I don't necessarily doubt that she is a simple woman, I got her definition of the simple woman. That one incidently is from your (I have no connection to the website – ETP) submissive wives website and asset. Your thought about this problem and of course this whole letter I would truly appreciate.
When to purchase the PI? I am going to be greatly surprised if he finds out anything about her that I haven't already known. However, her family??? I am sure she protects the family.
Not crazy about the inabiltiy to test the exotic fruit. However, we are dealing with a possible virgin here. Celine's imput would be interesting. Seems like I need a plausible line. I have laid on her several times that jealousy is very unappealling (thank Rik). She is not very jealous and I am thinking about building a bridge to Japan from PI. However, if you are publishing the correct answer is if you can ditch your woman get another hotel room.
She will bring ID, don't ever be so stupid.
I expect to use American Express, but how much cash is smart to have, I have long used the money belt, but thanks for the pillow, I have one, but would not have taken it.
Where to go after Cebu? I would imagine I would like to experience other safe parts of the country obviously with her.
… Where else in the Philippines is there my need for mass communications without interruptions and safety? Perhaps were I can raise children. What are my best connections for this? I have not done any research on this, however I have had mixed reports on Cebu. I am talking about permanent residence.
… She said I can take her anywhere I want to go.
… I am not use to having a woman by my side. I used to operate on the one hundred **** theory, that nothing good happens after that. However, I am getting older, I don't feel comfortable my sister and I believe I need to marry. I will be surprised if this lady is a 9 or 10, but she has an education and comes from a Province and no doubt is a 'simple woman', certainly a prospect. It will be “heartbreak hotel” if I drop her. I know that shouldn't be in the equation. I will make her time montarily prosperous if we split.
So I trust my instincts, but I have some problems. Your imput would be greatly appreciated.
Rik: I have to tell you that you should stop at the first drink when you write email's of such duration. There's a lot I don't understand. Perhaps you could re-read the email's and see what I mean.
I don't drink, so I don't experience those problems. Nor do I smoke. And, for the record, I don't like being 'profane' either. I'm not a religious nut - even as a Buddhist - believing religion is best served by more action (of personal responsibility) and no talk
… Ok, I'll start following along on your train(s) of thought:
… statistics don't do a very good job of predicting which Filipina will be a good one. There are more variables than even (chose one) God can get on a statistical chart. God must have been drunk the day he made women, because they are the most unpredictable creatures on earth.
Exotic Fruits: You should definitely stay away from any kind of entanglements before you come here, and after you get here. I know it is, and will be, very tempting to do mating 'display' when playing on the Internet - it's safe, and can be fun. Internet dating games in the RP are a major industry. Filipina's will tell you all sorts of things - endless variations of things. There is no way to tell what is and isn't true. But if you play with telling your Honey Ko how you feel, etc., over the Internet ("I'm your boyfriend"), she'll take it as bring carved in stone.
You should consider saying, "Let's meet and see what happens. I'm searching for the 'right' girl, who must be a certain way (your criteria). So I must spend time and meet many girls... I can't and won't make any promises." Once you're in your sweety’s arms - and before you **** her - you should tell her that ****ing her doesn't mean you've picked her to be the one, so... "are you sure you want to do this?"
My earlier advice stands: Although it's nice to have some girls lined-up to meet and spend time with; it's better to live here for awhile and enjoy being single.It will be like being a kid in a candy store with an unlimited selection. Girls will be coming out of the woodwork. You can get a house-keeper, and she will find you girls. All you want. I used my house-keeper (H-K) as a procurer and she brought me many girls. I never went into a bar but once (taken there by a Pinoy (man) on a 'tour' of Puerto), except for the time I made one trip to AC (Angeles City).
The only real way to learn what you need to learn in RP is to live here and 'experience' things. Don't be in a hurry.
As for Celine and giving you advice about "exotic fruits"; Celine is private in the most extreme sense of the word. She wouldn't even consider advising you. She talks to almost no one, and completely shuns the pinay habit of chika-chika (gossip) - which you'll soon learn about to your regret. She won't talk to the neighbors, and will hardly talk to her own sisters. She stays in the house and does needle work and other crafts, and listens to the TV while I sit at the PC. She works outside in the garden daily - eschews jewelry and showing-off, and goes nowhere unless I send her. She's as about as perfect a partner as a man could hope for.
On chika-chika: You will have to be very careful about what you do and say to anyone. I call the compound's maids and house-keepers, “The Maid Mafia” - and for good reason. Everyone is in a conspiracy of chika-chika about each other's "bosses." You will always be called "boss" here. It's best to say nothing you don't want anyone - everyone - else to know. And, believe me, they'll all know.
Find yourself a girl who hates chika-chika and doesn't want friends, and you find yourself to be a much happier man.
As to being the "boss": You can be as much of a boss as you wish. Here, your word is law. Tell your woman how she is to obey you - right away - and that breaking your rules will get her kicked out the door. Use the words 'training,' 'discipline' and 'punishment' often. Tell her that you're going to train her how to behave. It won't faze her. Discipline your woman how you wish. Filipina's are designed to obey and defer to men. You can spank her, tie her up, **** her until the cows come home, and she'll take what you give her as a matter of course. Training is everything, so you should have a plan on what you want and how you want it... then implement it.
Filipina's, as you probably know, are known by the term LBFM's (little brown ****ing machines), and they deserve the title. You can *** your Filipina as much as you want. It's not America and Americunt's here, Toto.
Do not allow her to indulge her friends at your house. Keep the family at bay by telling Honey Ko you don't like or want company, but are a very private person. Tell her she must want to live that way or you won't 'take' her in. Filipina's, for the most part, love chika-chika, to visit and have visitor's. Once they learn that she's living with a foreign man, long-lost friends and family will soon start arriving if you don't preempt it first - all wanting - expecting - to be fed and given sugar drinks with their chika-chika. If you allow it in the beginning, you'll regret it. Be tough but soft. Calm but firm. Love your woman and play and laugh, but be in control - like a boss would be. But not like a tyrant 'boss.'
I joined Intimate Submissive's, but never met anyone. It quickly became apparent it wasn't necessary. You'll understand once you're here. There's girls everywhere. But you need someone to introduce you. Bar girls are no good. But dating is almost impossible. Shy Filipina's won't talk to you.
Get a house-keeper. She'll be your gateway to women.
Intimate Submissives is good because they screen and only accept submissive's. Filipina-Heart takes anything. If you don't get a submissive woman, you'll generally get trouble. Many Filipina's now want to be Westernized, and so behave as if they are. You have to be firm, controlling and discerning. If your Filipina doesn't behave right away, or shows signs later of rebellion or deception either punish her or throw her out. There's an unending supply of honey's waiting to get in your door.
I told my H-K to talk to Celine when I saw her walking down the street. I stood off about 20-feet away while they talked. Once I saw Celine look at me and keep talking and listening, I knew I could safely go over to where she was without frightening her. I immediately told her I was looking for a proper Filipina that wanted to serve a loving, responsible, but demanding man. About ten days later she was living with me. Try that in America!
My strategy has been to be happy, and make money in the process. Women are great, and can be a lot of fun. I wouldn't want to deprive myself of their company for long. But in the USA I didn't want to get deeply involved, since they only manipulate you once they know you care about them.
AIDS is a problem, no doubt. Stay away from the bar-girls if you're afraid of it. There's plenty of girls everywhere. There's lots of virgins here. Celine was a 25-year-old virgin when I met her. I don't like virgins, either. But I've had a wonderful time training Celine. When you're older - and retired, you have a different perspective - not to mention plenty of time - on sex. Most any Filipina will learn, and enjoy, whatever you teach them, so new kinds of sex and new tricks can be a source of fun for you, also. And virgins have no real pre-conceived notions of what to expect. Asian women are used to serving and being dominated… They seem to like sexual gadgets, and porn movies. If you'd like to or want to provide sex toys, you can't get them here, so you must bring some or go to Hong Kong or Thailand to purchase them.
The Catholic's are in charge here. Many levels of society are very strict.
The virgin thing won't get you in trouble with the parents. Mostly, they don't care. Sex is viewed differently here - people don't have those puritan hang-ups like in the USA.
But you need to talk to the parents even more than your honey about what you expect and will and won't do for them, and what you expect from their daughter; absolute obedience and loyalty, no deceptions, blah, blah, and how you will throw her out if... Get their full understanding about those things. "Do you understand that I won't tolerate or permit..? and what I'll do if...? They may want you to give them a monthly stipend for loss of money from the daughter who will no longer be working and giving bucks to them. It's up to you whether you will or not. I told Celine's parents "no." Once that was established, and after I saw that Celine was a good partner, I gave help to them. They appreciated it - and me - a lot more when I did it from the goodness of my heart rather than having to. But they never ask for anything.
... Of course they're poor (Peter’s girlfriend’s parents)... most everyone is. Many dream of the American's riches. Plenty of girls will tell you they don't want money when they do. Don't be deceived by words. Again, the experience of being here is your best ally. Trust at your peril. Plenty of Filipina's will tell you they don't want anything from you, because they know that will turn you off to them.
Steady as she goes, mate!
You shouldn't lie to your Filipina (the “auntie” lie). The truth is always best. The American games aren't necessary here.
P160 pesos-a-day sounds about right (how much the girlfriend earns per day). And most children give money to their parents.
She probably gets free time on the PC, though, as she would only be able to get online before or after hours or when things are slow. She'd soon be broke if she had to pay. It's likely to be a feel-sorry-for-me line.
Free room and board is standard for many jobs in the Phlippines. It binds workers to the owner.
One thing to learn is that Pinoy don't normally come out and ask for something like American's do. We Americans are very straight-forward as a people. Pinoy's, no. They'll beat around the bush for days on end and try to get you to offer. They may never actually come out and ask for what they want. You're supposed to know somehow what they want and give it to them. That also makes it easier for them to never pay you back.
Put that info to the front of your brain and keep it there.
It's possible that a storm took the satellite; that sort of stuff happens, all right. But... you can never know.
The $50 gift was a silly thing to do - under any circumstances. And to think she won't tell everyone you sent it is, at the least, unrealistic. That was very American of you. $50 is more than half-a-month's pay. Big money. Imagine if you had 17-days extra pay given to you as a bonus. Don't think she saved it; a Pinoy saving money is too rare to contemplate. Money pours through Pinoy fingers. She may have given a little to the parents, but it's probably spent.
But it's your money to do with as you please.
Your honey may or may not be educated, but education here and education in the USA is two different things completely. Don't expect her to be smart. Most Pinoy - even University trained - are ignorant as all get-out, and superstitious in the extreme. You're in for a lot of laughs when you hear the things you're going to hear from your Honey Ko.
About women's periods: Yeah, there's a lot to be said about knowing that stuff. Celine, to my delight, has never once been in a bad mood, even when her cramps bother her.
Whether you thought of it or not, you did exactly the right thing writing on the envelope you sent that there were pictures inside. I use that trick when I have new credit cards sent to me. Always have the envelope hand-written and put a piece or two of thin cardboard - like on the back of writing tablets or a cereal box - on each side. Better still, pay for FedEx delivery to your door or the office.
A fourteen day snail-mail trip is normal.
There's tons of festivals here, and girls love to go to them as well as to dances and kereoke clubs. Don't allow it once you're here. Many Filipina's with foreign husbands will have a boyfriend hidden somewhere, and they'll support them with your money. You should always control the flow of money. Don't leave it laying around - not even a change jar - where she can get a hold of a 20 or fifty peso bill.
You'll probably give her an allowance. She'll take as much as you'll give her. Most want P10K ($200) or more. I never gave more than P3K a month, and I only give Celine P2K. For the last year I've given her nothing except small amounts when she needs it. I'm using all my money to invest in fish cages and rice buying and selling and loaning for seed and pesticides - plus I help her parents with bills. Since the businesses are in her name, her allowance goes there as a share of the investment.
Usually when you give an allowance, the girl is expected to buy all of her own things - make-up, shampoo, conditioners, lotions. tampax, clothes, and so forth. Do one or the other, but not both.
Cebu, according to Celine isn't a very safe place top live. There's not a lot of terrorism, but there are kidnappings. Celine continued that Cebu City is full of crime and criminals. Celine says most of the criminals in Manila come from Cebu - meaning it's a breeding ground. Personally, I wouldn't know. I've never gone there.
...Cebu, and Manila, is a one hour flight from Puerto.
Your lady friend is doing the normal thing in taking a companion (read: ETP) - it's normal. It's not surprising that she's never been there or flown on a plane. This is the RP, after all. Asking for receipts is a good idea. Better remind her more than once and just before she leaves; Pinoy have a habit of forgetting practically everything - except who owes them money.
Peter: "I said the Internet and or phone was not foolproof."
" ... She immediately went off about that fact that she is not that type of woman (bar-girl). She is a woman no one can touch."
"She asked me if I wanted to sleep with her."
Rik: Hmm, that opens lots of questions and rings bells in my head. That would not be the normal question for a Filipina virgin to ask. Do you see the incongruity between the statement and question?
Hostesses: Yes, there's an example of language translation and different meanings. A hostess is a bar-girl, but may (rare) be a greeter in a good restaurant or even bartender. But, yes, mainly it means bar-girl/prostitute.
The boyfriend was probably a Pinoy. But there'd be no surprise if she was writing other men, either, like you, keeping her options open, or for play. Pinay love to email and chat with foreign men.
A lot of Filipina’s practice their skills of deceit and get money from many men on the Internet.
Celine has also told me that she wants to die when I die. It's standard fair in this part of the world, and has nothing to do with menstruation. Filipina's will attach themselves to you either through loyalty and love or though your bank accounts. That's why I keep saying don't jump into the first spiders web you come across. Some of those girls will make it very hard for you to get rid of them.
One girl refused to leave and informed me that she was staying right where she was when I told her to get out. I had to take her by her hair and drag her to the door and toss her through it. But before I could close the screen door she had her body up against me and both hands clinging to the door jam as she screamed and tried to push herself - and me - back inside. It took three tosses to get her far enough away to get the door closed. She raced around the house screaming and crying and demanding to be let in.
I ignored her.
I finally wound up giving her money to go to college for a year to get rid of her, and a P15K loan (never paid back, of course) to the mother.
In the beginning of the relationship I had promised to give the daughter's allowance to the mother as she had been working and supporting the mother and was paying the cost of putting a brother through school. When I threw her out, she went to school and the mother had nothing.
It was the right thing to do under the circumstances. But I told the lot of them never to bother me again. That was my most expensive lesson.
Because she kept threatening to cause me trouble and demanding to be let back in for weeks, I called my attorney for legal advice.
Under RP law, if you let a Filipina into your house to live - if you let her bring her clothes, etc., into the house and she sleeps there - you can't legally throw her out. My attorney advised me that if she refused to leave and stayed inside the house, and if I then threw her out I could be arrested, so the best thing to do was to rent another place, move out and stop paying the rent. That's legal. But if you buy property for you and your wife (or girlfriend) to live in, and you throw her out, you are in effect throwing yourself out - and you will lose your investment.
Because all property must be in your wife's or woman's name, and not yours.
Something else for you to remember.
When your Filipina said that men became profane on the Internet, she meant they talk dirty about sex - what they would do to her, and vice-versa.
I think you're making a mistake trying have a number one, number two back-up plan. And I believe you'll see the mistake after you've been here awhile. In the USA, life is one way, and the man-versus-woman culture requires a certain attitude of management.
But this is the RP - a totally different gig altogether. You're a shark in a pool full of minnows. Why bother giving one or two minnows special attention?
PLDT (the national phone company) has the best offer for communication. I have high-speed unlimited-time broad-band 124K-per-second DSL for P2500 ($44.60). The phone charge is now P897.00. You can get good PLDT service in Cebu, I'm certain. Power goes out a lot though, even in Manila.
I don't doubt that your Filipina is a simple woman. Again, standard stuff in a land of poor people. The question is: will she stay simple once she's under your care?
About jealousy: Simply said, "I will not tolerate jealousy. Period. Play jealousy games with me and you'll be standing on the other side of that door. Obey me and you'll be all right."
Your American Express card may not be very useful to you. Better to have a Visa. Bring in traveler's checks, and expect to use them. You can cash them at any bank. First, though, get a few photocopies of your passport. Many, if not all banks will require that before they'll cash your checks. When you use traveler checks and buy pesos with dollars you'll get the going daily rate - which may rise. Four years ago it was P49=$1.00. Now, P56=$1.00.
Everywhere the power is 'iffy' - on and off. You can't get around that. I don't recommend wi-fi communications as that can easily be tapped into from outside your house. Use PLDT.
I recommend that you rent some place. You'll probably want to move at least once when you find something better. Get some place (in Manila or Cebu) that's secure - somewhere you can have you house or apartment guarded - in a guarded compound or apartment building. An apartment might be best at first - so you can safely leave your belongings and travel. Tip the guard a small amount to make sure no one breaks in. Tell him you'll give him a nice tip upon your return if your apartment stays unmolested while you're gone. Travel to find where you'd really like to live.
I don't necessarily agree with your sister. Marriage may not be what you need - at least for awhile.
You will need someone to take care of you as you grow older. If you pick well, - unhurriedly - there's hardly a better woman to take care of you than a Filipina.
By the way, the more highly educated Filipina's can be far more dangerous and deleterious to you than a simple girl. A 'forest girl' as they're known as here can be the best. They live simply and are already well trained in obedience and submissiveness by their father and mother, relatives and neighbors.
Celine, for your edification, has a third grade education, has worked more or less steadily since she was eight years old. She's a forest girl. But, she is one of the smartest Filipina's I've met so far - certainly the most trustworthy, faithful, obedient, loyal and hard working. She's unassuming and satisfied with what I give her. City girls - college educated girls want MORE, and expect to get it. They know the ways of the Western world and want their piece of it. Forest girls are happy if they have electricity and a fan.
I would never let a city Filipina through my door. They preen and love to spend money and, worse, they love to show-off. They practice deception and dream always of more. They're never satisfied. They want you to take them to the States and live in the land of golden opportunities. Stick with simple; you'll be much happier.
They are far easier to train to do what you want.
You might be interested in looking through this site: http://www.pointmancebu.com/. They offer, among other things, investigative-style services. The gentleman who operates PMC tells me that he is not a licensed private investigator and does not advertize his services as such. However, confidential interviews are performed. The Filipina will not be informed that she's being interviewed for her potential foreign mate.
Rik
Peter: What am I doing to prepare myself?
I daily reread one of your months great lessions. Everyday a different month and about every other day reread your personal correspondence with me, that I greatly appreciate the time you took and the great of detailed personal instruction. Thank you so much. I believe the deprograming process is gradually working its charm.
Of course being a weak, sensitive American sent me astray back into some communication with my honey-ko. However, do to your instruction, I am in complete control of the situation. I was already in pretty commanding position with the last email that I shared with you. It set her back a day or so to respond. I told her that it was at best a 10 to 1 chance that I would see her after a couple of exchanges. I asked her last week, what kind of a wife would she be to me and demanded an answer by Wednesday this week. (Notice I am not drinking). She delivered a response on Wednesday (quite long) and ended with a. .. to be continued... She mentioned that she was sick with the flu. That sickness was brought on by the stress I placed on her.
… With her Friday response, I went on the attack, and told her she must obey me at all times. I told her that that was such an easy question that I did not think it should take three to five days to answer. I said to put it another way, if we were getting married and the priest presented you with the marriage voes, would we have to wait three to five days for you to answer his question. This was totally unexceptable, that if you were living with me you would be out the door. Or else I would leave. I cannot have a rebellious woman. Rebellious women is what we have here in the states, they think divorce is okay. I do not. You must obey me, obey me, obey me. Now there has to be punishment. I may not see you at all this year. I want you to email me each day for the next five days with your response. If you do I will email you on the fifth day. If you cannot do this I will email you in ten days.
She emailed back that she would obey me all the time and do whatever I want etc., etc., in some detail. Of course I will stay firm to the five days if she follows through.
… I like your idea of a guarded residence or else an apartment and explore next year with a base camp.
…I look forward to your future blogs and any advice you may have for me.
… Speaking of trust, the www.pointmancebu.com web-site rated filipina internet ladies with a 20% honest rating.
Rik: What is your agenda, now, concerning the girl you've been talking love and possible marriage to in Mindanao? Are you still making her the focus of your affections?
For most Filipina’s, Pinoy (men) are worthless. They find it almost impossible to be monogamous. Most affluent men have many lovers, mistresses and concubines (for children) - all at the same time. Even many of the very poor will have at least one lover on the side.
Pinay don't mind all that much unless it affects their own and their children's well-being, by virtue of the man spending all of the money drinking and on the second household where he keeps the mistress.
Keep giving serious thought to staying single for awhile. You can keep renewing your 59-day visa as many times as you want for a small fee. It's far, far cheaper than what it would cost by having a woman who steals everything from you, or having to pay a girl off - or her family - to go away.
In the RP most foreigners have to pay the girl to come and then to go.
... Flirting is common and acceptable in the Philippines. Don't be afraid to flirt. But don't be lewd. Compliments will take you far. Telling a girl how affected you are by her beauty, charm, etc., is very effective. "Would you have dinner with me? I'd like to get to know you better and know more about you." is a good line.
Steer clear of sexual innuendo.
..............................................................................................................
I think this is enough for the reader to get an idea of the inter-play between Peter and his Internet girlfriend. There's just a bit more needed, however, to lead you in to the investigators report.
After going to www.pointmancebu.com, Peter made arrangements to have his Filipina interviewed, In the following portion of this article you will learn just how close to knowing his Filipina Peter was, and what kind of a person he was really dealing with, and also how much ‘truth’ Peter was actually getting from her.
Peter: Of course, I am still communicating with the Mindanao lady. I have been very honest with her and the little money that I sent her will take care of any communication or picture expenses she has incurred. It is supplementing my education on the Filipina culture, she is very beautiful and I plan to have her investigated, if for no other reason than my curiousity.
I receivied an email from Pointman Cebu. I hope they are a reputable agency as I can find nothing good or bad about them.
… As far as going slow, my world record is three months with a woman. I was in a forum yesterday on WSG, with single never married men. They all seemed to want to get married but they cannot bring themselves to that elective. Only one guy had a solution, he was about our age and he found a killer woman as his main woman and had three college girls on the side until he thinks now he can be monogamous. I don't have any idea what kind of therapy I need. The main reason to get married is to have children which I think would be nice.
…Thanks for everything, Rik.
The following is the initial report from Pointman Cebu, who did the investigation of Jukie, Peter’s “girlfriend.” Jukie is not the girl's real name.
In the reports of those from Pointman-Cebu below - I will also not use real names of the interviewer's, and Pointman-Cebu will be recognized as "PMC."
Hi Peter,
Here is our report on Jukie for you:
Jukie, upon first communicating with her, seems to have a very nice personality. In fact, she is an attractive girl. However, when you dig deeper, below the skin is where you find she isn’t quite so attractive.
First, she wants to use you (in her own words) as a “stepping stone” in the US. This means that she will leave you after she has become established there, as many scammers will do with their foreigner husbands and fiancé’s.
Second, she said that you are too old for her and that she wants to find someone else who is younger. She only wants to gain your trust so that you will take her to the states.
Third, she still chats with other men online. She is allowed all the free time she wants online, in exchange for her working, as it is part of her agreement with her boss, whom I happen to meet as well while there.
Fourth, she has received money from other men she chats with online.
Lastly, she uses her personal cell phone at work and was sending text messages on it while we were there.
So, from what we found out, I would strongly suggest not taking her to the US to be with you. Please feel free to contact me regarding any questions you may have. I realize that you may not wish to talk by phone. However, in this case if you make an exception I will be happy to discuss any of this in further detail with you. My number is: 1-912-228-3385 I will be happy to ring you back, if you prefer.
Thanks,
PMC
Peter: … Thought you would be interested in PMC's final report. I am going to call him to see how he formulated each of his decision points.
Rik: Due to time-zone confusion, an email was dispatched to PMC, instead.
The following is first the questions from Peter, then the answers from PMC.
Hi PMC,
On your report:
How did the (going to) United States get brought up into the conversation?
How did you learn that she thought I was too old for her?
How did you find out that she still chats with other men online?
What did you learn from her boss about Jukie and/or our relationship?
How did you learn she had received money from other men online?
General Questions:
Did she seem shy?
Were you a party of four?
What were your wife's general observations/conclusions?
Do you think she is married or has a boyfriend?
Did you feel that I was her main boyfriend?
How long of a conversation did you have with her?
How busy was the cafe during your visit and did the weather have any effect on there business at this time?
How time consuming do you believe her job to be?
Did others in your party have any good/bad observations?
How safe is the area that you travelled through for americans?
What would be your recommended method to travel there?
Did you use any of the computers at the cafe if so did they appear to have poor internet connections?
Did you notice a web cam? There web cam was supposed stolen about a month ago. Only the web cam was taken.
Do you have anymore pictures of interest to me?
If you were hiring an employee, based on what you learned about Jukie, would you hire her to work for you?
What is your best guess on how Jukie would handle your report if I told her?
Finally:
Have you made any general observations during your time in the Philippines about islands that have better prospects than others? Are there islands to avoid?
Is there anything I can do for you, such as a letter of recommendation for your web site. I will ask Rik to include your firm in his blog.
Many thanks, PMC, I am glad you are safe, thanks for the picture, it seems to me like a fine report.
………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
Hi Peter,
I apologize for the late reply. Anyway, here it goes:
First, she said she was surprised by our visit as she was expecting me (us) to arrive the day before.
Now, regarding your “On Your Report” questions:
How did the (going to) United States get brought up into the conversation?
Answer: At first, Yeti asked her how many there were in her family. She told Yeti there are 6 of them, from near Tandag. She is the eldest. Her mother is a house wife. Her father is a driver.
Yeti then asked if she were content in living like she does now. Jukie said, “No, I want to go to the states, because the Philippines is very poor and you cannot find a decent job here (in the Philippines).”
How did you learn that she thought I was too old for her?
Answer: Jukie was discussing other chat mates (did not specify how many others) and was comparing his age to her other chat mates.
----------------
Regarding your General Questions:
Did she seem shy?
Answer: No, she seemed very willing to talk with me, whether Yeti was in the room or not. (Yeti had to step out and assist her sister with our brother-in-law.
Were you a party of four?
Answer: Yes, there were myself, Yeti, her sister and her sister’s husband.
What were your wife's general observations/conclusions?
Answer: Jukie has a bad character when it comes to relationships with *any* foreigners, certainly concerning the one she has with you. She has no good intentions in her heart. She is, what they call in the Philippines… ambitious. That is a bad term to use concerning someone here. That means the person in question doesn’t care what they have to do in order to achieve their goal in life, including using others to accomplish that goal.
Do you think she is married or has a boyfriend?
Answer: I do not believe she is married, although that isn’t impossible to find out. She could have a Filipino boyfriend, but we could not prove that with the information we have, currently.
Did you feel that I was her main boyfriend?
Answer: No. When talking with Yeti, she never mentioned anything of the sort, although she did tell the foreigner (me) what I wanted to hear, that she was your girl friend.
How long of a conversation did you have with her?
Answer: Yeti and I spoke with her for a little over an hour while she was at the café. Incidentally, we have been to that café a number of times in the past, while visiting Hinatuan for other clients.
How busy was the cafe during your visit and did the weather have any effect on there business at this time?
Answer: The place was fairly busy, but Jukie made it a point to tell us it was only busy from about 5pm to 8pm, daily. The weather was clear and dry, so people were all over the area.
How time consuming do you believe her job to be?
Answer: During busy times, she will be pretty busy. However, that time is only when the kids are out of school. During the day, the café is quite dead, so she will have tons of time on her hands.
Did others in your party have any good/bad observations?
Answer: We do not include anyone else in our conversations with people we interview for our clients. Other than the other couple coming inside the café to use the bathroom, we were the only ones who spoke with Jukie.
What would be your recommended method to travel there?
Answer: Flying into Butuan or Davao then driving south or north to get to San Francisco, then go East to Barobo, and finally south to Hinituan. Be prepared for very nasty road conditions, as this is typical of the Philippines.
Did you use any of the computers at the cafe if so did they appear to have poor internet connections?
Answer: I believe it was a dialup connection they were using. This would be fairly slow, but quite predictable for provincial towns.
Did you notice a web cam? There web cam was supposed stolen about a month ago. Only the web cam was taken.
Answer: There was one on top of the computer, at the time we were there.
If you were hiring an employee, based on what you learned about Jukie, would you hire her to work for you?
Answer: I don’t have enough information that I have gathered during the time we spoke with her. I didn’t ask her many questions regarding her abilities. However, as far as operating a basic program on a computer, she seemed to do okay.
What is your best guess on how Jukie would handle your report if I told her?
Answer: I think she would be upset over the fact that we were there to interview her. However, each girl reacts differently after being told they were interviewed. Typically, they are mad with us, but that isn’t a big issue normally. What can become an issue is the fact the girl was told by her fiancé that he had her interviewed. As it sits right now, she has no clue whatsoever that she was interviewed by us. The only way she will find out is if you tell her. We never reveal to the girls why we were there.
Have you made any general observations during your time in the Philippines about islands that have better prospects than others? Are there islands to avoid?
Answer: Some foreigners told me to avoid Mindanao, however, Yeti and I have been all over Mindanao without ever having a single incident to crop up. As far as peaceful places to live, I would suggest Bohol, Negros Oriental or Siquijor Island, which is located off the coast from Dumaguete City, which is the capitol of Negros Oriental.
Is there anything I can do for you, such as a letter of recommendation for your web site. I will ask Rik (ETP) to include your firm in his blog.
Answer: Nothing at all, now. However, if you would be willing to serve as a reference in the future, that would greatly be appreciated.
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I hope the previous information has helped you more. If you have further questions, please do not hesitate to contact me with them.
Take care,
PMC
As the reader can plainly see, what Filipina’s say and what they mean are two different things.
I purposefully added a lot of the correspondence between Peter and me in hopes the reader would notice the way in which Peter chose to believe his Filipina chat-mate, how he convinced himself that he understood and knew what his Filipina was really doing and the truth to what she was saying, and the level of her truthfulness. He was playing a ‘game’ with her, by his own statement, and was trying to manipulate her in order to both learn more about her, and also to see how well he could control her.
I think Peter believed he had things fairly well in hand, and had a good understanding of his Filipina’s motives. He believed he had good insight into her true nature.
I believe most readers would think otherwise.
It may have been good practice for Peter, however, to “dance” with a Filipina in order to have more clarity in his future exchanges.
I hope that Peter, and you the reader, learn the most important lesson from this encounter: Honesty and respect for each other is most important. With those two aspects in force, deception, manipulation and domination isn’t necessary to have a good relationship with a Filipina or any other woman.
I recommend that my readers go to a number of inter-connected websites. They will find a wealth of information that can assist them in understanding things Philippine.
There are forums to get direct access to locals who are willing to share knowledge and experience to you wannabe’s.
For a personal interview of a Filipina, PMC can help you. The charges are affordable and reasonable. For more information, contact:
www.pointmancebu.com
www.cebuliving.com
www.cebuliving.com/forums
www.cebutours.com
www.ceburealtors.com
PMC has put up a forum page – listed in “Other Area Information” for readers of Expatriates in the Philippines.
http://www.cebuliving.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7481
Readers can also get information at: WWW.livinginthephilippines.com.
ETP
posted by Rik | 10/03/2005 02:11:00 PM
